WW2 Luger P.08 Made From Armorer's Replacement Parts!

Two New Lugers But...

Hey guys and welcome to another Walk-in Wednesday. Today I'm going to talk about these two Lugers but before I do, let's do a little bit of trivia. Check this out.

 
Quick Trivia Game Before!

Now the last time I did a video I got more comments about the items in the background than I did about the guns and that's okay because I asked for your feedback. But I got a few items back here. I'm hoping that you'll recognize some of them. This is kind of in the corner and so some of you, if you can tell me what video this is from, what's special about this, obviously don't say it's a German helmet but this is from a previous video.

Also, if you can tell me what's special about this, this is from a previous video. Of course, I have a snail drum I mentioned that, that's not a contest. This, let me show you this. This was on a previous video and I'm wondering if some of you can tell me what video that was from. It's a special object. And finally, I have a trivia item here. I'll get a little bit closer. I did not do a video on this but I didn't know what this was and I do now.  I'm wondering if any of you can tell me what this is and why it's extremely rare. And I'll give you one clue because I do feel sorry for you if you have to google this. One clue, right here it says Everett.
 

Back to the Lugers

Back to the Lugers

Okay, so let's go back to the topic du jour. I previously did an entire video on Lugers - the production and the variations of Lugers. I have two Lugers here that I'm going to call a Walk-in Wednesday because one of them did come in the door. The guy knew what it was and therefore I paid dearly for it. The other one was at an auction and it was listed as a mismatched gun. And by the way, the end of that story was since it was listed wrong, I was able to pick it up pretty cheap. So that's why these YouTube videos are so valuable. You learn information, if you ever see one of these now you'll know what it is. So check it out. Let's start at the top. 
 

The Codes Can Be a Bit Confusing

The Codes Can Be a Bit Confusing

So both of these guns are dated 1940, nothing unusual. The one that's marked byf they called a mismatched gun because some of you, who if you watch my channels, the code for the Mauser factory was S/42 at first. K-dates, G-dates, 1936-7, all the way up to '39 they used S/42 and then they just used the code 42. 42 was the code for the Mauser factory. But in 1941 they changed the code to byf. Don't ask me why and I don't know what it stands for but '41 and '42 were marked byf and of course, production stopped in 1942. That's an important part of our story so we'll go back to that. 

Red Flag!

Red Flag!

So you can see and you can see how the person who did the write up had a little bit of knowledge because they said byf 40 is mismatched. And normally that would be true except for the fact, if we look for the serial number, on both of these guns you can see there is no serial number. So there's a red flag. 


Future Trivia Question

Future Trivia Question

Of course just for comparison, if I look at my prop gun that's behind me, it is a Black Widow Luger and will be a future trivia question by the way. I have a Black Widow Luger behind me but you can see where the serial number normally is. And of course, this one is byf41 which is correct and I'm only showing you the Black Widow as comparison. 


Closer Look at the Markings on the Parts

Closer Look at the Markings on the Parts

Let's look at the side of these. You can see the Black Widow, the all correct Black Widow has a serial number on the receiver and then also the last two digits you can see all over the gun. The Lugers had the last two digits of the serial number on many of the parts including the small parts. 


What Does the 42 Code Mean?

What Does the 42 Code Mean.

But on these two Lugers that I'm covering today you see a small 42. Now some of you are already thinking, I think I know where we're going with this. The small 42, no serial number, actually the 42 code means that this was an armorer's replacement part. Now we've seen these before, if you watched the video about the KU Luger, some of the parts will have 42 on them and I mentioned at the time that that just means that they were leftover replacement parts. They actually then did number them to the gun, but these are only numbered 42. And that is the code for a Mauser replacement part. 

How were these Replacement Parts Distributed?

How were these Replacement Parts Distributed

To the best of our knowledge the way that these replacement parts were distributed I saw a picture on one of the forums years ago of a truck that had drawers in it, kind of like sliding drawers. Kind of like when you go to the hardware store and they have different size bolts and screws and they're all in little drawers, this armorers replacement truck would go not the front lines but would go to the staging area. So in other words your field hospital, your quartermaster for supplies and this truck would be there filled with replacement parts. They had that for both Lugers and then later on P-38s. 

Who Had Time To Match Parts Out In The Field?

Who Had Time To Match Parts Out In The Field

And these replacement parts, it is believed were all marked 42. They weren't numbered because of course out on the field you're not going to take time to number them to the gun. Somebody would come back, the gun wasn't working properly, they would just slap a replacement part on it. 

Big Change in 1942

Big Change in 1942

Now in 1942 they changed the factory, they changed all the machinery from making Lugers to making P.38s, you know that from previous videos. So now they have all these replacement parts which they still need because obviously a lot of the men were still using the Luger but little by little everybody's switching over and by 1943, '44, '45 they're actually running out of enough guns. 

How Many Guns Did They Go Through?

How Many Guns Did They Go Through

I was wondering this morning how many guns were they actually losing? Many were captured, obviously many were blown up when an armory was blown up, but it's hard to imagine how many guns, millions of guns that they went through. And you would think you could just pick up a luger from somebody who was wounded or dead and you could get parts that way, but nonetheless they needed a lot of parts. 

Entire Guns Were Built From Replacement Parts

And toward the end of the war, they were they needed a lot of guns. So as logic would dictate they would actually be able to build an entire gun just from armor replacement parts and that's what these two guns are. Now that you know you get that aha moment and you can say aha that makes sense. 


No Way These Were Built In 1940

No Way These Were Built In 1940

Let's take a look at these two guns and see how fascinating this is. The one that came out of a collection, has no marking on the toggle and interestingly these are both dated 1940. But there's no way these were built in 1940, these were built from leftover parts. 

A Closer Look at the Outside Parts On These Guns

A Closer Look at the Outside Parts On These Guns

So the bottom of the barrel, the one that came from a collection that does not have a byf on it, this actually has a styre proof which means the barrel was built in styre and they did make replacement parts but again no serial number on the barrel and normally it would have it on the bottom of the barrel. You can see the condition is pristine. The other one that I bought at auction, it has 42 so that's a Mauser replacement part. And look at the bottom of both magazines, they're marked 42. Again, ideally you would have matching numbers but the next best thing is an unnumbered armors replacement magazine. These magazines actually go for a lot of money because they're very rare and if you put it together with your luger, if you don't have the matching, as I said the next best thing that you can say was it's all matching except the magazine is unnumbered. On the front you can see an eagle 63, that's actually a much earlier eagle from maybe 1937, '38 or '39. So that's an early eagle, so we know that was a leftover part. Both side plates are marked 42. Actually you can see one is S/42, so that's a little earlier. The S/42 code went away in '39, so one was an earlier part.

 
Absolutely Beautiful Guns

Absolutely Beautiful Guns

Both of these if you look at the condition of the guns they're absolutely beautiful. The one that I got from auction, if I take the grips off they are both marked 42 on the inside whereas the one that came out of the collection is actually marked eagle 135. Now eagle 135 started in '42. So we know this gun was put together 42 or later and my conjecture would be when they no longer needed replacement parts as much they needed guns, they just took replacement parts and put these together.
 

I Can't Imagine These Guns Were Actually Hand-Fitted?

I Can't Imagine These Guns Were Actually Hand-Fitted

Now let's do a little bit of comparison and learn something about Lugers while we're at it. The one thing about these replacement parts teaches me a lot about the Lugers themselves. I've always read that these were handcrafted, hand-fitted, things like that. That it was precision equipment but each and every one of them had to be handcrafted. And I couldn't imagine that they actually took a file and made each one of them but in truth it was something pretty close to that. Because over the years I've noticed that when I saw a luger and let's say a part was suspect, the most common part would be the side plate. 

A Closer Look At The Side Plates

A Closer Look At The Side Plates

The side plate is easily damaged; we'll take a look at our Black Widow. Side plate, it sticks out a little bit, it's easily damaged, it gets bumped and so people will renumber it to match and just put a replacement side plate on here and renumber it. When I look at the numbers I think the font is not exactly right and I'm just not sure. One of the things that I notice is when I go to take them off, like on this one, this one is all matching, not suspect. All I do is push it back, lever comes right down, pops right off really easy. The ones that I noticed that were suspect, often the parts just don't fit right. And that's true even when you get inside more, the parts don't come apart exactly right. So these hand-fitted really are true that they had to make sure every part, the tolerances were so exact that every part had to be hand-fitted. It took a lot of time and expense which is one of the reasons, one of the many reasons they went to the P.38, as well as the P.38 being a lot less expensive. 

Not Easy to pull Apart

But when I take one of these armor replacement guns, again they're out on the field, they're just grabbing parts putting them together making Lugers, they don't have time to hand fit them and they don't have the machinery to maybe shave off 1/100th of a millimeter. So on these armor replacement parts and KUs as well sometimes when I push this back the lever does not easily come down; there it goes. I had to use a lot of strength. Now sometimes they won't come down at all. 

Here's A Trick!

Here's A Trick

Here's what I'd recommend. I take a plastic bic pen, put the tip in there not the metal piece but just put the plastic end in there and pry it down. But when you're doing that that usually means the gun is not fitted properly or has replacement parts. So a lot of strength to push this down which tells me that it was not fitted correctly. This does pop off however. The other part that the fitting is often not right, is this one actually slides pretty well. A lot of times the rails don't line up exactly right and then most importantly I don't remember how this one is, but I take the little pin out, the toggle pin then the toggle comes off easily; there's the coupler - hanger. It's tight. This should go in smoothly. 

Listen Closely

Listen Closely

I've had them where I call this the tuning fork because if you tap it, I flick it, I'm going to do it one more time (sound). Again I have bought guns that they don't fit together correctly. This one is not too bad but this won't go in, in fact I'll have to take like again a piece of plastic, spread it apart and put it in that way. 


It's Not the Kiss Of Death

It's Not the Kiss Of Death

So anytime you have to do that it's not the kiss of death meaning oh this is fake or this has been replaced, but it is a red flag. These should fit really well, especially the earlier guns. Earlier guns they spent a lot more time. I guess the workmen were paid a lot less. As we're getting into the war now you have slave labor and they're not as well trained, they're thrown in there and told to do these things. So the quality did go downhill. But still in 1942 they were still spending a lot of time putting together these Lugers.
 

I Can't Budge This At All!

I Can't Budge This At All

The first one I took apart which was the byf40 this is the blank toggle 40. This one is actually even worse. This one I can't budge at all, so either I need to work out my fingertips a little bit more or as I said, it's not a bic pen but I just take this piece of plastic and use it to pry it open. It's still very very difficult but finally this does open, pop off the side plate, we look inside. Actually another example is this safety lever, very difficult to push up to remove the safety takes a lot of strength. Compared to the other one this is very stiff, the rail right there gets stuck. So the rails are stiff, comes apart in a jerky motion and let's just try the receiver. It's not called the tuning fork for those of you who love to correct me. I know it's not called the tuning fork, that's the receiver. I take the toggle pin out. Now every once in a while this toggle pin will be marked 42 because on regular World War II Lugers it would have the last two digits on the toggle pin. 

Oh Dear! I'll Need Three Hands To Do This

Now here's the problem with this one, I'm not going to be able to get that back on. It's so tight that it won't fit back on. And I will do this off camera because it's going to take three hands to do this. Well you can probably see if you look at the tuning fork that it actually comes...it's not completely parallel. So what I need to do is take a piece of plastic and I'll pry that apart and then insert it. So the bottom line is these are a pain in the neck to take apart. On a positive side, the bores are absolutely mint. I can't tell you how many were done, I just don't know. 

Absolutely Remarkable Week!

Even going to gun shows for the past 25 years I've only seen a few of these in my life and to have two in the same week is really remarkable. And I also can't say for sure when these were put together. 

Logic Says...

Logic would tell me they needed the parts in 42, they probably needed parts in 43 but after that they're not making Lugers anymore. They're picking up battlefield parts and so they decided let's just take the remaining parts and put them together for the soldiers on the front lines. 


Since We Pulled It Apart Let's Look at The Inside Parts

While we have both of these guns all taken apart and laid out on the table for you, I'll just quickly mention you can see that this is original finish because the hangers in the white, the firing pin is in the white. Normally, the serial number would be on each of the toggles. Both toggles are blank on both guns and the firing pin, a lot of people don't know this but all you have to do, you can use a screwdriver to take that firing pin out. Or the easy way to see if it's matching is you just pop this down and it'll be numbered right there. So on these, both of them are blank so that tells me the replacement parts were just left blank on the smaller parts such as the firing pin, the toggle pin and the toggle assembly itself, they were left blank. But the external parts you will see the 42 code.

Let's Wrap Up and Put Them Back Together

Let's Wrap Up and Put Them Back Together

In summary, I have parts everywhere here and it's going to be real important that I figure out which one goes where because there's no serial numbers so I should have thought ahead about that. But I'll just break it right there. Anyway, I will get these back together properly. Again they don't fit together right, so it's hard to put these back together. And the most interesting way to spot one of these, of course, is the 42 code. And there probably are other dates out there. There has to be 38, 39, 42 code parts but the best way to recognize them, no serial number other than the 42. Some people will mistakenly say the serial number is 42, it's not. There is no serial number, it only has the 42 code. 
 

You Never Know What Is Going To Walk-In

So the main reason I wanted to do this video is it's highly unusual for me to have two in the same week. So that's what happens here at Legacy Collectibles. You never know what's going to walk in the door and I'm happy to bring this rare variation to you. I hope you learned something today. Make sure you like and subscribe to our channel and make sure you continue to watch because this may be a future trivia question.