Real Waffen Proof Stamps: Steyr M95, P.38, Luger Holsters?

Perplexed because this Steyr is Almost too Good to be True!

Perplexed because this Steyr is Almost too Good to be True!

Hey guys, welcome to another Walk-in Wednesday. This is a rifle that walked in recently and it had me a little perplexed right away because I have not seen one before. It's made in Austria during the World War I period of time but it's in such fantastic condition, it's almost too good to be true. The gun is all matching, you can see the matching serial number on the stock, on the gun, it's marked Steyr and it's a model 95. So 1895 is the original patent and as I said these were made primarily for service in World War I. 

The Nazi Proof is Clear as Day

The Nazi Proof is Clear as Day

Now one thing that you noticed already and which was glaring, was the Nazi proof stamp. The person that sent it to me said it was a very rare variation I had not seen one before and so I was... Basically he said it's in mint condition. It's not see proof stamped in several locations. As soon as I saw it I had a big red flag on the Nazi proof. If we take a close look at that it's very very clear and that's usually a red flag. In fact there's a saying in this business, if you can see the circle and the swastika it's probably a fake.


A little bit about Steyr, Similar to K98 but not a K98

A little bit about Steyr, Similar to K98 but not a K98

We're going to talk through that a little bit and the whole reason... I normally wouldn't bring you something that was faked, but I think this is a good learning lesson and it spills over to other Nazi items. So a little bit about the Steyr first and foremost. Again used in World War I when I got it in you would have had a good time laughing at me because like a K98 and other bolt-action rifles I was pushing and pushing and pushing and banging. I was ready to get a rubber mallet. I could not get this bolt up and I thought well the gun doesn't even work and I have to tell you, I played with it for probably 20 minutes until I realized duh, it goes straight back. Most rifles go up and back, this one just comes straight back. So that's a unique feature. As I said I hadn't seen one before, similar to a K98 but not a K98. But the reason for the video again I want to go back to the stamp.


Back to the Stamp

Back to the Stamp

So let's go back and look at several of these stamps. I already mentioned this one, we'll take a look at it. You can see here how crisp it is, how deep it is into the wood, looks like it was done yesterday and in fact, it was it was done back in the 1990's. There's also other stamps, you can see Nazi stamps on the receiver and then a big Nazi stamp - it's kind of cut off with the wood but you can see the wings of the eagle very plainly and you can see the swastika that goes down below the wood. Again it's crisp, it's clean, very well stamped. 


Oh No! Red Flags!

Oh No! Red Flags!

These are red flags in general. If you look at aK98 and let's just take a look at the Waffen stamp. Often they're very faint, very hard to see. The wood raises over a period of time, so in other words when you... Same way with leather, when you stamp it in, it goes into the wood or it goes into the leather but over time and moisture and things like that it begins to raise. Just like when I leave my sofa on the carpet for a very long period of time and then move it, you'll see the legs and indented into the carpet. But over time that carpeting will begin to raise. So when you see deep, crisp easy to see the wings, easy to see the swastika, oftentimes these are fake. It's not universally true but just be very careful about Waffen stamped.

Probably they even Tricked the Dealer too!

Probably they even Tricked the Dealer too!

Of course when I saw that it was a fake I called the owner and he was very surprised because he bought it from what he thought was a reputable dealer and in fact maybe the dealer was fooled too. But when I went to the Internet I saw very quickly that these were actually imported from Europe into the United States. They were all reworked meaning the bluing was redone, they're polished up, these stocks were sanded down and revarnished. They all look immaculate like this one does. And from what I could tell they brought in about a hundred of them already stamped with Nazi stamps, already stamped on the stock. They brought in about a hundred of them back in the 1990s and collectors just gobbled them up because they were very, very cheap. 

Pay attention to the Details

Pay attention to the Details

So a similar Steyr in original condition would be a rifle that was maybe $500 -$600. You add in the Nazi stamp and it becomes a rare variation and the owner was thinking it was worth about $2,000. So obviously adding the stamp adds a lot of money, so buyer beware. A little bit more about the mystique of this particular gun, if you watch our YouTube channels you'll hear me talk about the fact that most of the German weapons already were procured by the army. Meaning the army had standing orders for K98s and P38s and Luger's. And so when the Waffen-SS started I did a video about Gottlob Berger who was the father of the Waffen-SS. When the Waffen-SS started all the weapons were already spoken for, there were standing orders for all the German weapons. So they tended to get the leftover rifles that were reworked, they tended to get capture guns meaning the factories when the Germans took over Czechoslovakia, Belgium, France, when they went into these countries they captured these weapons and a lot of those went to the SS. They did not get Waffen stamps they usually got SS rework stamp which is a whole other video. So generally they did not get German made weapons, they got weapons from other countries such as the Steyr. 


Buyer Beware!

Buyer Beware!

Now the Steyr Factory in World War II we know that it would have had a BNZ marking and there are BNZ K98 rifles that did go to the Waffen-SS and they have a completely different stamp not the Waffen stamp as you see here, so buyer beware. Let's take a look at a few other faked weapons I generally don't have fake stampings in my office and part of my recommendation to you is when you buy a gun, buy from a reputable dealer. If you're walking around the gun show just buying from somebody that you don't know and you're never going to see again, if it's too good to be true don't buy it. I like used weapons that look like they went through the war, this one does not and so buyer beware.

Holsters to show you and Faked Stamps

Holsters to show you and Faked Stamps

Let's take a look at a couple of holsters because that's the only other thing I have here where I can show you some fake stamps. So again I'll repeat the general rule of thumb. If you can see the feathers perfectly and you can see a swastika perfectly, buyer beware. And I'll say this over and over again to collectors because they call me up and say oh that the stamp is a little bit off, it's a little bit crooked, it's a little bit sideways, I think it's a fake. 


Made for War, not Collectors

Remember these were made for war, these went to war. They were not made for collectors, they were not sitting around say hey hold it, do that one over again. I had an Eagle C proof on a PPK and it was double stamped. Meaning a double tap so it almost looks a little bit blurred and I had an advance collector say oh the Germans would never had let this leave the factory because they were perfectionist about their stamps. Not true they were banging these out as fast as they could and sometimes they're double stamped, sometimes they're crooked. I have Walther banners that are upside down. So they were making them for war not for collectors.

Look at this Holster

Look at this Holster

Now jumping over to holsters because that's the other really good example. This is what you'll see a lot. I can barely make out the date, if you take a look at this usually there's the initials of the factory. You can see here BLA and then I can barely make out the 1941. Again remember it's stamped in, it raises over time and the Waffen stamp is almost completely gone but there is just a shadow of a Waffen stamp. This is typically what you're going to see on holsters and by the way on stocks of guns, not so much the metal. Obviously the metal doesn't blur over time but stocks and leather they will. 


Almost as good as it Gets

Almost as good as it Gets

Here's one that is real but is about as good as it gets. This holster is a P38 holster in absolutely mint condition. Love this holster, this one will stay in my collection. Just look how nice it is. Inside there's some paint left, the black paint here often is worn off, there's some paint left. But the markings that's about as strong a marking as you're ever going to see. But even with that I can't make out the number on the Waffen proof and I know there's an eagle with a swastika underneath it. I can definitely make out the maker and the year of 1943, P38 but I can barely make out the Waffen stamp. 

Put these side by side, Now It's as Good as it Gets

Now side by side let's take a look at this one that's real, and again this is as good as it gets in terms of stamps. Here's a P38 from a faked holster. The stamping is very deep, it's very crisp, I can read the number very clearly, I can see the wings on the eagle and I can see a swastika. Interestingly the P38 marking is a little bit faint. The stitching - you can see that the stitching definitely looks different. See the stitching at the top, you can see the difference but basically these repro holsters sell for about 40 bucks. They're not bad if you just have a shooter grade gun or you're a re-enactor. I'm not saying there's no value to these, there are. Also one other clue we like to use around here, you smell it and it smells like a brand new pair of shoes, that's that's one good clue. This one smells like sweaty socks, so that's the difference.


The Stamp on this Luger is Crisp

The Stamp on this Luger is Crisp

Let me show you one other this time a Luger. This one is even more obvious take a look at that stamp how big the Eagle is. Again you can see the swastika, the wings on the eagle, the date, the maker. This is a Luger holster and reproduction. I would say this is a really good quality reproduction but I'm only expecting to pay 50 bucks for this. And again I have people who buy them just for display or for a re-enactment, nothing wrong with that. Notice the difference in the size of the eagle. It's bigger and crisper and that's basically a fake stamp. 

Read up and Research

Read up and Research

So there's a lot to learn in this hobby and if you're spending a lot of money make sure you get some books, read them. Most of all buy from reputable dealers. I'm biased but obviously if you come to Legacy Collectibles we stand behind what we sell. So you want to buy something from somebody who you know is going to stand behind the quality and the authenticity of the weapon or the holster.

Thanks for watching as Always!

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