Huge Luger Centric Gun Haul

 

Luger Haul 

Hey guys, today we have part two of our big haul. And what do all of these guns have in common? They were all rescued.

 

Rescued guns out of Canada

Now, most of these were rescued out of Canada, I believe one was rescued out of -- well wasn't rescued out of Europe because it wasn't about to be destroyed. But in Canada, it's a long complicated story and I don't begin to understand it all. But my understanding is people have to turn in their hand guns or they'll get destroyed. And so we here at Legacy Collectibles want to do our part to rescue these guns from destruction. I hope that someday Canada can get all or at least most of these back because the laws will change and they'll be more lenient toward gun ownership, especially gun collecting. There's no reason that collectors can't have access to these fine collectibles. I'm sure that they are not using them to commit any crimes. But I digress, let's get back to these rescued guns and I put them in historical chronological order. 

 

Our videos will build your vocabulary

It's a big vocabulary by the way, which is another thing you can tell your spouse about that watching these videos, also improves your vocabulary. It's truly sumptuous. Okay, here's the first one. 

 

A stock for the Broom Handle

A stock for the Broom Handle

This is a broom handle. You can tell because the little broom handle is sticking its head out down here. Come on over and let's take a closer look. This is the stock it has a few things in it but it is original and  by the way, this one is not numbered, because it's a commercial broom handle. It's very early, early 1900. Try to take these out very carefully. And by the way, when I store this, I do not store it in the wood because it bangs around in there. So just for the sake of the video, I went ahead and put it in the wood but normally I would not do that and I recommend you not store it in there. There's the inside, I don't know why that piece of tape is there probably to keep it from catching there. And speaking of catches, here's the little catch where it closes, and there's a catch here and a button. So very nice stock. 

 

Look at this commercial stock

Look at this commercial stock

Then this one, the commercial ones are marked with the Mauser logo. The military ones will usually have an imperial proof here and you want to look for that because that does add value and this logo also adds value. 

 

Let us look at the gun itself

Let us look at the gun itself

Let's take a look at the gun itself because this is remarkable. Normally broom handles I don't even bother to show you because they are usually beat up pretty badly. That's a commercial proof, there's a serial number, look at the finish on that. You know when I first saw this again, I've said this before on this channel that right away I think okay, this has been refinished or restored; and it has not. This is all original fire blue, all original blue. The one place where your see corrosion right here. Notice how that turned brown there and that I'm sure is from sitting in here up against the wood. It corroded, it didn't scratch it but it looks like it browned it, maybe there was some moisture in the wood. On this side actually there's almost no wear at all; a little bit of wear here, a little bit of wear here. Again, some fire blue, all matching. Again the stock I'm sure is original to the gun, but all matching it has a mirror bore. And again this was destined to be destroyed and we were able to save its life. Well worth it, it survived all these years. Again going back to 1900, it survived for 120 years and we want to make sure it survives for another 120. 

 

Nine lugers in chronological order

Nine lugers in chronological order

Okay here I have nine lugers, there's actually four more all navies but this video is going to be long enough that I took the navies out and I decided to set them aside into a separate video just on the four navies. But I put them in chronological order. Let's start with this one.

 

1918 Erfurt

1918 Erfurt

And we'll really get a history of the Luger in that this one is 1918 so and it's also Erfurt. So DWM and Erfurt were the only two makers in World War I This is a World War I era luger, you can see the Imperial proofs lined up right here. And that's where they'll normally be; earlier ones had some proofs over here. This is a serial number, no proof but you do see the serial number here and the proofs on the right side. And that is most World War I era.  

 

Identifying the World One I Lugers

Identifying the World One I Lugers

Now the easiest way to tell World War I I've said before, if you look at it over here, anything with a wooden bottom is going to be World War I. This is actually between the wars and then after that there are aluminum bottom or what we call the Black Widow magazine. It's just really a black plastic bottom, which was used in '41 and '42. But let's go back to this. This all original finished, got some wear here, we would see halos and sometimes you'll see unit markings here or here. No unit markings on this one. So all original configuration from 1918 used by the German military in World War I. Again, Erfurt marked. 

 

The Confusing Lugers

The Confusing Lugers

This one looks particularly ugly and it is very complicated. I know a lot about lugers, I really collect Third Reich lugers and that's where my expertise would lie. But from time to time I do hear about a Vickers lugers and they are very confusing. Actually, Ian McCollum, of course at Forgotten Weapons did a whole video on Vickers Lugers. He can explain a lot better. But I'll give you the broad overview it but it's a complicated story. 

 

History Lesson - The Vickers Lugers 

History Lesson - The Vickers Lugers

Generally, I don't really say that Vickers manufactured the Luger. In fact, Vickers was in England, Vickers made of course, the Vickers machine guns and it was a licensed copy of the maxim. And so they already had a relationship with DWM. So Vickers and DWM, I think they were cousins on each other's boards in the two different countries. They got along until World War I, and then they severed all ties of course. After World War I, DWM was forbidden or restricted on building any new lugers. So basically, the only thing they could do after World War I, so in 1920, they put together guns from parts, and they sold them externally to places like the United States and they only made commercial guns. 

 

Here's the complication

Here's the complication

However, in 1923, the Dutch ordered, well in this case, the order was for 6000 lugers. But they couldn't get them from DWM, because the DWM was forbidden to make weapons for the military in this case, the Dutch military. Now these were going to the Dutch East Indies, I told you it gets complicated. The Dutch East Indies, 6000 guns are needed to be built. DWM couldn't build them. So my understanding is they sent most of` the parts I think Vickers did manufacture some parts. But basically they sent parts over, they had to get rid of a lot of parts and even taking apart guns from World War I took them apart, sent them to Vickers, Vickers put them together, they were sold to the Dutch you can see here it says roost or rust, that doesn't mean the gun is rusty but that's Dutch for safe. And so that we know is a Dutch marking also this plate. Here's an example of one that's intact, but the Dutch plate they would have the unit marking here it's scratched off, the only thing I can make out is a looks like a J there. So I don't know what unit this went to. But they all went to the Dutch East Indies tropical climate. So they're always pretty corroded. 

 

This gun has quite a story

This looks like it was probably straw at one time but these are pretty corroded parts. And that's because of the climate there. They're all in really bad shape. This is pretty much how they all look. It is all matching except for the magazine. But again, this is about 1923. This is Crown W which is Queen Wilhelmina. And then there's also some British proof marks here. So what I believe happened, it was purchased by the Dutch for the Dutch East Indies, probably captured by the Japanese in World War II. And then after the war came back, maybe from a vet came back to England, vet bring back and they put the British proof mark, these are British proof marks. So if this gun could talk, it would have quite a story to tell. But it is a rare variation put together in England by Vickers, same people who made machine guns and then sold to the Dutch, probably captured by the Japanese, and then back to England. And then over here to Legacy; actually then to Canada, and then to Legacy Collectibles; quite a story. So you're really going to get a history lesson here because this one is also got a lot of history. 

 

Here it gets more complicated

Here it gets more complicated

So if you subscribe to my channel, you already know. So between the wars, this is part of the irony of the Vickers. Going back to the Vickers, the irony was the DWM was not allowed to make guns for the military. And yet the German military needed some new weapons; I want to say Treaty of Versailles, they were only allowed to have 100,000 or 150,000 men, but they did need to make a few weapons but DWM and Erfurt both were forbidden. So they picked a Jewish company. Some people said it was this stick a finger in the eye I have the German elite, because obviously, Jewish owned businesses were not in favor even before the persecution, they were still discriminated against in many ways. 

 

He finally got a contract in the middle of the war

He finally got a contract in the middle of the war

Mr. Simpson was a bicycle maker, he also made parts for some guns, but he always wanted a contract to make weapons. And finally, again after the war in the middle, I think around 1925, they got a contract to make military lugers for the German army, but again, between the wars. So these are Weimar proofs that wouldn't be Imperial proof, but Weimar proofs between the war and this is Simpson, the company was in Seoul. But when Hitler came to power in 1933, by 1934, the handwriting was on the wall. If you were Jewish owned business, you were not going to have any military contracts. 

 

That was short-lived

That was short-lived

And so the factory was taken from the family and they were forced to leave Germany. It was a terrible thing to do but they actually, it was a blessing that they got out of Germany, before they rounded up Jews and started killing them. So they did make out better that way but this factory in Seoul became the Krieghoff factory in Seoul. So this is again part of German history, part of the Luger history. You can see the proof marks, which is an eagle 6. And throughout the gun, you'll see Eagle 6s, it's all matching. This magazine, however, should be aluminum. It's a World War I era magazine that came with the gun, I believe it's blank. But when Simpson made it, it came with an aluminum bottom magazine. So this factory then became the Krieghoff factory.

 

The S Code

The S Code

And speaking of which, here are S code Krieghoffs. See the two Krieghoff and it says also says Krieghoff Seoul. So instead of Simpson Seoul it says Krieghoff Seoul. It's the same equipment that made this Simpson made these. By the way, Simpson and Krieghoff considered some of the best quality made lugers that were ever made, just because they put a lot of machining time and attention, hand fitted everything. So these are just remarkable guns and have a phenomenal reputation. The S code means 1936. And they were using a code to hide from the inspectors that they were making more lugers and they didn't want to put a date on it. So they used the S code. And you can see the condition both of these are pretty early guns. You can see here it's 2300. And here, it's 3000; actually 3o25. 

 

Interesting Fact

And what's interesting about this gun, so this gun is all matching. So again, all matching Krieghoff with the Ritz grips, which is fine checkering. Before this, they had wooden and then after this, they had a coarser checkering, but this is a fine checkering Ritz Grip. And interesting, it has a matching magazine but it's a Mauser magazine. So this is not the original magazine to this gun. 

 

How could the magazine match the gun?

How could the magazine match the gun

But I find it interesting because one of two ways this could happen, somebody just luckily found this. Actually, it also could be forced match in looking at the font. This is definitely a Mauser. You can see the eagle 63, Mauser magazine that could be forced match I my guess is probably is just because the font is a little bit different. But also one way that this happens is there are people on the forums that will publish that you can look up a serial number, and you type in the serial number and somebody says, hey, I have a matching mag and it just happens to not be a Krieghoff mag. 

 

Use my book to track down a  mag

But if you go to my book, I'll show you another way to use my book toward the back of the book, I have a list of known Krieghoffs. Now this one is not in it, because I just got it so it's not in there. But you can look up what did I say that was 3024. So I just couldn't find -- does that mag exist? It doesn't. So here's an orphan mag, there's 3073. So contact us and we can probably find out where that mag is. So you won't find the matching mag, see I put them in blue. Any orphan mag is in blue. So you can look up the orphan mag and see if there is one that is matching. And if not, you can see how close you can, get in this case. I can get pretty close to go with this gun. So I think I'd rather have a close Krieghoff than a forced matched Mauser magazine. Same way with this gun. I can look up the serial number, this one is 2340. I can look up the serial number 2340. And I see here I have 2342. So that's only two digits away. So the book really is helpful in tracking down some of these magazines. 

 

Let me show you how

Let me show you how

Okay, this one is a little out of sequence because I jumped to 1939. And I want to show you a G Date. But I wanted to show you this because I had the book out and again, this is how the book is helpful. I just had one of our viewers say, hey, I just found a police Eagle K, is that a rare gun? And I said, yeah, let me see pictures, that actually is a rare gun. The Eagle K was right here. And it was not in the proper range. So the way to use this, if you haven't looked at the book, right here in 1939, I go to the table this is a 1939. It's a police see this police sear. This one actually happens to be a police Eagle C. So we want to know is that the proper marking, is it in the right range. And so we go here, we can see that they made an Eagle F, K, C, L. Here's the serial range from V to X. And this is W so it's right in the middle. That's the correct range. In his case, the one that he showed me, it has a commercial proof above the serial number. And in his case the Eagle K was there; so the eagle K is above the serial number and that's not where it goes. If you turn the page you'll see an example. There's the Eagle K, this happens to be an Eagle C, you see what it looks like it's on this side right up here. That is all correct. So this book it pays for itself, in buying a gun you can avoid making a mistake. 

 

To make up we'll do free shipping

Now unfortunately we're actually out of these, just in time for Christmas we ran out so as our way of saying sorry we're out of them. I ordered them last week and they said they're not going to be in until the second week of January. So that sucks because we're going to miss Christmas. But because we feel badly about that we will ship them to you for free. If you want to order one before January we'll get them out soon thereafter with free shipping. 

 

Quick recap

Okay, so just one more time this one came out of Canada. It's all matching numbers although the magazine is blank but it does have a Eagle C not Eagle K; but that is a correct Eagle C marking which matches the Eagles C marking here. Notice how the grips are extremely light, which makes them look really beautiful and it's a Mauser banner, not a Mauser code, but the Mauser banner just like you found on the broom handle stock.

 

Back to the G Date

But I skipped a G date. Now G Date was a code again, just like the S code was a code to hide the date. G Date is from 1935, S42 is the factory code. Again that was a code to fool the inspectors. I don't know how much fooling it did. But this is a really pretty nice G date there. You can see some brown patina on here. It also has a little bit of fire blue on it. You can see right here on that toggle link. See that's our link. You can see a little bit of fire blue also serial number to the gun. Look how nice the straw is, beautiful yellow straw. It can't be the right magazine because the right magazine would be nickel and would not have that pin in it. So it's a later magazine. But again, a blank magazine goes to a later gun, but a beautiful G date, in really nice condition. See the straps and the other side of the gun here you see the Third Reich era proof marks as opposed to the Imperial or Weimar proof marks. 

 

Only two byf's left

So the only two left are these two and again, Canadian rescues. They are both byf. BYF now is the factory code and 42 is the year. Now they didn't care about putting the year on there. And by the way, this is the last year of production of the Mauser luger. Krieghoff kept making lugers till the end of the war, but Mauser stopped in 1942 and by that time, they began to make the byf 42 p38. 

 

Let's compare these two

Lets compare these two

Now these both contrast each other; let's put them down and kind of take a look at how they contrast; they're both beautiful guns. This one is considered a Black Widow just because it has black bakelite grips and black bakelite bottom. But otherwise it's the exact same gun other than the fact this has the wooden grips. Now these wooden grips versus these black grips. These are, I think much prettier and better condition, but this will sell for more just because of the marketing of the name Black Widow. Black Widow means nothing special. The rumors started early on, that the black widow went to the SS, there's no proof to that. It's just a standard military contract with standard military proof marks. The gun no longer has straw parts, but it's all blued or almost a black finish. It does look very sleek and very cool. But it will sell for more than this gun. And I think this gun is just a prettier gun. Look at that, compared to the beech wood grip look at that strap. The back strap does have a little bit of wear here. But it just pops, it's just a beautiful gun. It does have the military proofs here. And I don't remember if the magazine matches. It's a blank magazine, which at the end of the war, it probably never was numbered. There's no signs of it being ground down. But it does look like an original magazine, no numbering, because by the end of production, they weren't messing with that they were just throwing in an unnumbered black bakelite or a unnumbered aluminum bottom. There are some that are numbered, I want to be clear there are some that are numbered. But I think it's very possible that this came out of the factory exactly like this. And this is probably as nice as I've ever seen for a byf 42. Certainly worthy of my collection. 

 

Early First Variation Hidden Extractor

Early First Variation Hidden Extractor

Okay, I have just two more rescues, these two. Now this is a big deal. It may not seem like a big deal right away, but if you look at it a little bit, you'll recognize the fact that this is an early Zero series - 0870. And it's early enough to be in the first variation, which is the hidden extractor. Now here's a picture of one with a standard extractor. Here they had a hidden extractor first variation. It didn't last for very long, only the first, maybe 1000 of them. Then they realized that it didn't work as well. And so they changed the way that they manufactured that but this is an early first variation. Look at the front strap, just remarkable. The grips are numbered to the gun so they do match. There is somewhere on this side, I want to make note of that. It does have the correct proofs. Definitely all original finish. And you can just see how beautiful the barrel is, the top there's a little bit of wear there. Magazine as I remember is to a later gun. In fact, the U marking on that means it was made this magazine is from 1945. So you couldn't get any further away. This was made in 1940 and the magazine was made in 1945. So this this was rescued out of Canada if this had been destroyed, what a shame. But fortunately, it's been rescued and it'll be cherished by a collector.

 

And to close the show

This last one I believe was rescued out of Europe. It is the original box to a Walther PP. You can see the serial number here and this says with signal indicator MIT signal shrift or something like that. Anyway with signal indicator, so we'll make sure that that's correct. Here is the original manual, it's dated April of 1939. This gun dates to actually 1940; so they printed this the year before. Put it in here but this is a 1940; look at the beautiful finish. Again this came out of I won't use the word rescue but it was salvaged out of Europe. No wear on that at all. Look at the beautiful fire blue; just a beautiful gun, the correct Walther banner only magazine. Notice this is a high polish finish. And this is a duller finish. The spare is the same way - Walther banner, high polish, dull. And then it does have the original early tin but there's no accessories inside there. Usually there would be a can of oil and maybe a rag. But that is the original cleaning kit. The finish on that is just gorgeous, from 1940. I don't think this is a part of any kind of special contract. I do believe it was just a commercial gun sold in 1940. 

 

There were restrictions on owning guns

But bear in mind that the average citizen could not go to a retail store and buy a gun. It was was very much restricted. They certainly didn't want any of the anybody who is not a Nazi, were not a member of the Nazi Party, they didn't want them owning guns so they did restrict it. You did have to get a permit, you did have to qualify to own a gun. And so therefore, the majority of these went to German officers as a private purchase gun or as a party member who wanted to buy protection, personal protection. That was looked well upon by the state but of course anybody who was not a member of the party was not welcome to own a gun. 

 

Stay tuned for the Navy Lugers

Okay coming up next will be the Navy lugers I pulled out of this grouping, so you want to make sure you like and subscribe to the channel and increase your vocabulary.